Video Infoblog: Jeffrey Sachs Brings Real Politics to the EU Parliament

Introduction

0:00

Jeffrey Zak is about to give a talk here in the European Parliament enjoy it when

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the Soviet Union ended in 1991 the United States literally

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believed this is now a US World and we will do as we want the wars in the

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Middle East Serbia the wars in Africa these are Wars that the United States

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LED and caused and this has been true for more than 40 years Europe has not

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had any foreign policy during this period that I can figure out no voice no

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Unity no Clarity only American loyalty

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please don't have American officials as head of Europe have European officials

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have a European foreign policy you're going to be living with Russia for a long time so please negotiate with

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Russia Trump and President Putin will agree to end the war if Europe does all

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its great warmongering it doesn't matter the war is ending not one word is told

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to the American people about anything or to you or by any of your newspapers

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these days this idea that Putin's reconstructing the Russian Empire this is childish propaganda so the war

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started what was Putin's intention in the war I can tell you what his

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intention was when zalinski said in 7 Days let's

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negotiate I know know the details of this exquisitly I flew to anchora to

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listen in detail to what the mediators were doing Ukraine walked away

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unilaterally from a near agreement why because the United States told them to I

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begged the ukrainians and I had a track record with the ukrainians I advised the ukrainians I'm not anti-ukrainian I'm

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Pro Ukrainian completely I said save your lives save your sovereignty save

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your territory be neutral don't listen to the Americans I repeated to them the

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famous adage of Henry Kissinger that to be an enemy of the United States is

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dangerous but to be a friend is fatal above all I want to welcome Professor

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Jeffrey saak and today Jeff is probably the person in the world to speak up for

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peace everywhere for peace which all these things combined and therefore I'm very happy that you're here and uh I'm

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here since 6 months and this Parliament and for somebody who worked for the UN I was actually quite shocked to learn that

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this Parliament speaks only about War I think we have now to rethink what we

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want to do and I hope the European Union will also come because I'm Pro European

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Union will come to to realize that we have also to see how we seek peace and how we manage peace and how we create

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again a peaceful Europe and Jeff might give us for these things some insight thank you very much

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[Applause] I've watched the events very close up uh

Jeffrey Sachs' Background

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in Eastern Europe the former Soviet Union Russia uh very closely for the

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last uh 36 years I was an advisor to the Polish government in

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1989 uh to uh President gorbachov in

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1990 and 91 to president yelton in 1991 to

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1993 to president kochma of Ukraine in 1993

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94 I helped introduce the Estonian currency I I helped several countries in

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uh former Yugoslavia especially Slovenia uh I've watched the events very

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close up for 36 years uh after after the

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maidan I was uh asked by the new government to come to Kiev and I was

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taken around the maidan and I learned a lot of things uh firsthand I I've been in touch with

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Russian leaders for more than 30 years I know the American political

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leadership uh close up uh our previous

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uh Secretary of Treasury was my macroeconomic teacher uh 51 years ago or

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just to give you an idea so we were very close friends for a half century I know

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all of these people I just want to say this because what I want to explain in

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my point of view is not uh secondhand it's not ideology it's what I've seen

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with my own eyes and experienced during this

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period in my understanding of the events that have uh befallen Europe in many

The Origin of Today's US Foreign Policy

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contexts uh and I'll include not only the uh Ukraine crisis uh but uh

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Serbia 1999 the wars in the Middle East

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including Iraq Syria the wars in Africa including

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Sudan Somalia uh Libya these are to a very significant

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extent that would surprise you perhaps uh and would be

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denounced about what I'm about to say these are Wars that the United States

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LED and caused and this has been true

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for more than 40 years now what happened

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more than 30 years I should say to be more precise the United States came to the

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view especially in 1990 91 and then with the end of the Soviet

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Union that the US now ran the world and that the US did not have to

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heed anybody's views red lines con concerns

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security viewpoints or any International

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obligations or any un framework I'm sorry to put it so plainly but I do want

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you to understand I tried very hard in

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1991 to get help for gorbachov who I think was the greatest Statesman of our

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modern time I recently read the archived memo of the

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National Security Council discussion of my proposal how they

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completely dismissed it and laughed it off the table when I said that the

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United States should help the Soviet Union in financial stabilization and in making its

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reforms and the memo documents including some of my former colleagues at Harvard

7:31

in particular saying we will do the minimum that we will do to prevent

7:37

disaster but the minimum it's not our job to help quite the contrary it's not

7:43

our interest to help when the Soviet Union ended in

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1991 the view became even more exaggerated and I can name chapter and

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verse but the view was We Run The Show Cheney Wolowitz and many other

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names that you will have come to know literally believed this is now a US

8:14

World and we will do as we want we will clean up from the former Soviet Union we

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will take out any remaining allies countries like Iraq Syria

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and so forth will go and we've been experiencing this foreign

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policy for now essentially 33

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years Europe has paid a heavy price for this because Europe has not had any

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foreign policy during this period that I can figure out no voice no Unity no Clarity no

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European interests only American

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loyalty there were moments where there were disagreements and very uh I think

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uh wonderful disagreements especially in the last time of significance was 2003

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in the Iraq War when France and Germany said we don't support the United States

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uh going around the UN Security Council for this war that war by the way was

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directly concocted by Netanyahu and his colleagues in the US

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uh Pentagon I'm not saying that it was a link or mutuality I'm saying it was a

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direct war that was a war carried out for Israel it was a war that Paul wolfowitz

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and Douglas feith coordinated with Netanyahu and that was the last time

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that Europe had a voice and I spoke with European leaders

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then and they were very clear and it was uh quite

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wonderful Europe lost its voice entirely after that but especially in

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2008 now what happened after 1991 to get to 2008 is that

NATO Enlargement

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the United States decided that unipolarity meant that NATO would

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enlarge somewhere from Brussels to Vlados step by step there would be no

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end to Eastward enlargement of NATO this would be the US unipolar World

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if you play the game of Risk as a child like I did this is the US idea to have

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the peace on on every part of the board any place without a US military base is

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an enemy basically neutrality is a dirty word in

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the US political lexicon perhaps the dirtiest word at

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least if you're an enemy we know you're an enemy if you are neutral you're

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subversive because then you're really against us because you're not telling us you're pretending to be neutral

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so this was the mindset and the decision was taken formally in

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1994 when President Clinton signed off on NATO enlargement to the east you will

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recall that in February 7th

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1991 Hans Dietra genter and James Baker III spoke with

11:54

gorbachov genter gave a press conference afterwards where he explained

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NATO will not move Eastward we will not take advantage of the dissolution of the

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Warsaw Pact and understand that was in a

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juridical context not a casual context this was the end of World War II being negotiated

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for German reunification and an agreement was

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made that NATO will not move one in Eastford and it was explicit and it is

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in countless documents and just look up National Security Archive of George

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Washington University and you can get dozens of documents it's a website called what gorbachov heard about NATO

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take a look because everything you're told by the US is a lie about this but

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the archives are perfectly clear so the decision was taken in

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1994 to expand NATO all the way to

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Ukraine this is a project this is not one Administration or another this is a

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US Government project that started more than 30 years

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ago in 1997 zign binski wrote The Grand

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chessboard that is not just musings of Mr binski that is the presentation of

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the decisions of the United States government explained to the public which

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is how these books work and the book describes the Eastward

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enlargement of Europe and of NATO as simultaneous

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events and there's a good chapter in that book that says what will Russia do as Europe

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and NATO expand Eastward and I knews big binski

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personally he was very nice to me I I was advising Poland he was a big help he

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was a very nice and smart man and he got everything wrong so in 1997 he wrote In detail why

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Russia could do nothing but exceed to the Eastward expansion of NATO and

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Europe in fact he says the Eastward expansion of Europe and not just Europe but NATO this was a plan a

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project and he explains how Russia will never align with

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China Unthinkable Russia will never align with

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Iran Russia has no vocation other than the European vocation so as Europe moves

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East there's nothing Russia can do about it so says yet another American

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strategist is it any question why we're in war all the

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time because one thing about America is we always know what our counterparts are

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going to do and we always get it wrong and one reason we always get it

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wrong is that in game theory that the American strategists play you don't

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actually talk to the other side you just know what the other side strategy is

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that's it's wonderful it saves so much time you don't need any

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diplomacy so this project began and we had a continuity of government for 30

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years until maybe yesterday

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perhaps 30 years of a project Ukraine and Georgia were the keys to the project

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why because America learned everything it knows from the

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British and so we are the wannabe British

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Empire and what the British Empire understood in 185

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53 Mr Palmer Lord Palmerston excuse me is that you surround Russia in the

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Black Sea and you deny Russia access to the Eastern

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Mediterranean and all you're watching is an American project to do that in the

16:50

21st century the idea

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was that there would be Ukraine Romania Bulgaria turkey and

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Georgia as the Black Sea literal that would deprive Russia of any

17:12

International status by blocking the Black Sea and essentially

17:19

by neutralizing Russia as more than a local power brinsky is completely clear

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about this and before rinsky there was mender and who owns the island of the

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world owns the world so this project goes back a long time I think it goes

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back basically to Palmerston in 19 and again I've lived

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through every Administration I've known these presidents I've known their teams nothing changed much from Clinton

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to Bush to Obama to Trump one to

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Biden maybe they got worse step by step Biden was the worst in my

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view uh maybe also because he was not compos mtis for the last couple of years

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and I say that seriously not as a snarky remark the American political system is

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a system of image it's a system of media manipulation every day

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it is a PR system and so you could have a president that basically doesn't

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function and have that in power for two years and actually have that President

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run for reelection and one damn thing is he had to stand on a stage for 90

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minutes by himself and that was the end of it had it not been that mistake he

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would have gone on to have his candidacy whether he was sleeping after 400 p.m. in the afternoon or

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not so this is actually the reality everybody goes along with it it's

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impolite to say anything that I'm saying because we don't speak the truth about

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almost anything in this world right now so this project went on from the

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1990s bombing Belgrade 78 straight days in 1999 was part of this project

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splitting a part the country when borders are Sacro San aren't they indeed

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except for Kosovo that's fine because borders are sacrosanct except when America changes

19:42

them Sudan was another related project the South Sudan Rebellion did

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that just happen because South Sudanese rebelled or can I give you the CIA

19:57

Playbook to please understand as grown-ups what this is

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about military events are costly they require equipment

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training base camps intelligence finance that comes from Big

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powers that doesn't come from local

20:23

insurrections South Sudan did not defeat North Sudan or Sudan

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in a tribal battle it was a US project I would go often to Nairobi and

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meet us military or senators or others with deep interest in Sudan's

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politics this was part of the game of

20:53

unipolarity so the NATO enlargement as you know started in 1999 with Hungary

20:59

Poland and the Czech Republic and Russia was extremely unhappy about it but these were

21:06

countries still far from the border and Russia protested but of course to no avail then

21:15

George Bush Jr came in when 911 occurred President Putin pledged all

21:22

support and then the US uh decided in

21:28

September mber 20th

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2001 that it would launch seven wars in five years and you can listen to General

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Wesley Clark online talk about that he was NATO Supreme Commander in

21:47

1999 he went to the Pentagon on September 20th 2001 he was handed the

21:53

paper explaining seven wars these by the way were Netanyahu

21:59

Wars the idea was partly to clean up old Soviet allies and partly to take out

22:06

supporters of Hamas and Hezbollah because netanyahu's idea was

22:12

there will be one state thank you only one state it will be Israel Israel will

22:18

control all of the territory and anyone that objects we will overthrow not we

22:25

exactly our friend the United States that's US policy until this

22:32

morning we don't know whether it will change now the only wrinkle is that

22:37

maybe the US will own Gaza instead of Israel owning Gaza but the idea has been around at

22:46

least for 25 years it actually goes back to a

22:51

document called clean break that Netanyahu and his American political team put together in 1996 to end the

23:01

idea of the two-state solution you can also find it online so these are projects these are

23:08

long-term events these aren't is it Clinton is it bush is it

23:15

Obama That's the boring way to look at American politics as the day-to-day game but

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that's not what American politics is so the next round of NATO enlargement

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came in 2004 with seven more countries the three Baltic states

23:34

Romania Bulgaria Slovenia and Slovakia at this point Russia was pretty

23:41

damn upset this was a complete violation of the postwar order

23:49

agreed with German reunification essentially it was

23:55

a it it was a fundamental trick or defection of the US from a Cooperative

24:02

Arrangement is what it amounted to because they believe in

24:10

unipolarity so as everybody recalls because we just had the Munich security conference last week in 2007 President

24:17

Putin said stop enough enough stop

24:23

now and of course what that meant was in 2008 the United States Jam down Europe's

24:29

throat enlargement of NATO to Ukraine and Georgia this is a long-term

24:35

project I listened to Mr sakash in New York in May of 2008 and I walked out

24:44

called Sonia and said this man's crazy and a month later a war broke out

24:50

because the United States told this guy we save Georgia and he stands at the

24:57

Council on Foreign ation says Georgia's in the center of Europe well it ain't

25:03

ladies and gentlemen it's not in the center of Europe and the most recent events are

25:10

not helpful for Georgia for its safety and your MPS going there or MEPS going

25:16

there and European politicians that gets Georgia destroyed that doesn't save Georgia that gets Georgia

25:24

destroyed completely destroyed in 20 8 as everybody knows our former CIA

25:33

director William Burns sent a long message back to condalisa Rice net means

25:38

net about expansion this we know from Julian Assange because believe me not

25:45

one word is told to the American people about anything or to you or by any of

25:51

your newspapers these days so we have Julian Assange to thank

25:57

but we can read the memo in detail as you know Victor yanukovich was

26:03

elected in 2010 on the platform of neutrality Russia had no

26:11

territorial interests or designs in Ukraine at all I know I was there during these PE

26:19

these years what Russia was negotiating was a 25-year lease to 2042

26:28

for saastal Naval Base that's it not for Crimea not for the donbas

26:35

nothing like that this idea that Putin is

26:40

reconstructing the Russian Empire this is childish propaganda excuse me if

26:48

anyone knows the daytoday and year-to-year history this is childish

26:55

stuff childish stuff seems to work better than adult old stuff so no designs at all the United

27:04

States decided this man must be overthrown it's called a regime change

27:11

operation there have been about a hundred of them by the United States many in your

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countries and many all over the world that's what the CIA does for a

27:26

living okay please know it it's a very unusual kind of foreign policy but in

27:34

America if you don't like the other side you don't negotiate with them you try to

27:41

overthrow them preferably covertly if it doesn't work covertly you

27:49

do it overtly you always say it's not our fault they're the aggressor they're the

27:56

other side they're Hitler that comes up every two or three years whether it's

28:01

Saddam Hussein whether it's Assad whether it's Putin that's very

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convenient that's the only foreign policy explanation the American people are ever given

28:14

anywhere well we're facing Munich 1938 well we're facing Munich 1938 can't talk

28:21

to the other side they're evil implacable foes that's the only model of foreign

28:28

policy we ever hear from our mass media and the mass media repeats it entirely

28:36

because it's completely suborned by the US government now in

2014 Ukraine Euromaidan

28:44

2014 the US worked actively to overthrow

28:50

yanukovich everybody knows the phone call intercepted by my Columbia University colleague Victoria nuland

28:59

and the US ambassador Peter Pat can't remember if I told you this or

29:04

if I only told Washington this that when I talked to Jeff feltman this morning he had a new name for the UN guy Robert

29:11

Siri did I write you that this morning yeah I saw that he's now gotten both

29:17

Siri and Bon kimoon to agree that Siri could come in Monday or Tuesday okay so

29:24

that would be great I think to help glue this thing and have the un help glue it and you know the EU no exactly and

29:32

I think we've got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does if it

29:37

does start to gain altitude the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it you don't get better

29:44

evidence the Russians intercepted her call and they put it on the internet

29:49

listen to it it's fascinating I know all these people by the way by doing that they all

29:57

got promoted in the Biden Administration that's the job now when

30:04

the maidon occurred I was called immediately oh Professor Sachs the new

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Ukrainian prime minister would like to see you to talk about the economic

30:17

crisis because I'm pretty good at that and so I flew to

30:23

Kiev and I was walked around the maidan and and I was told how the US

30:30

paid the money for all the people around the maidan

30:36

spontaneous revolution of dignity ladies and Gentlemen

30:42

please where do all these media Outlets come from where does all this

30:47

organization come from where do all these buses come from where do all these people called in come from are you

30:55

kidding this is organized and

31:00

effort and it's not a secret except to citizens of Europe and

31:09

the United States everyone else understands it quite

31:14

clearly then came Minsk and especially Minsk

Minsk Agreements

31:20

2 which by the way was modeled on South troan

31:26

autonomy and the belg could have related to MS2 very well it

31:32

said there should be autonomy for the Russians speaking regions in the east of

31:39

Ukraine it was supported unanimously by the UN Security

31:45

Council the United States and Ukraine decided it was not to

31:51

be enforced Germany and France which were the guarantors of the Normandy process

31:59

Let It Go and it was absolutely another direct

32:07

American unipolar action with Europe as usual playing

32:13

completely useless subsidiary role even though it was a guarantor of the

32:20

agreement Trump one raised the armaments there were many thousands of

32:28

deaths in the shelling by Ukraine in the donbas there was no Minsk 2

32:35

agreement and then Biden came into office and again I know all these people

32:42

I used to be a member of the democratic party I now am strictly sworn to be a

32:50

member of no party because both are the same

32:56

anyway and because this is I the Democrats became complete warmongers

33:02

over time and there not was not one voice about peace just like most of your

33:10

parliamentarians the same way so at the end of

33:19

1991 Putin put on the table a last effort in two security agreement draft

33:28

one with Europe and one with the United States the US put on the table December 15th n uh

33:36

2021 I had an hour call with Jake Sullivan in the white house

Sachs' Call with Jake Sullivan

33:42

begging Jake avoid the war you can avoid the war all you have

33:49

to do is say nato will not enlarge to Ukraine and he said to me oh NATO is not

33:58

going to enlarge to Ukraine don't worry about it I said Jake say it publicly no

34:04

no no we can't say it publicly said Jake you're going to have a war over

34:10

something that isn't even going to happen he said don't worry Jeff there will be no

34:17

war these are not very bright people I'm telling you if I can give you

34:25

my honest view they're not very bright people and I've dealt with them for more than 40

34:30

years they talk to themselves they don't talk to anybody else they play game

34:37

theory in non-cooperative Game Theory you don't talk to the other side you

34:42

just make your strategy this is the essence of Game

34:50

Theory it's not negotiation Theory it's not peacemaking Theory it is UN atal

34:59

non-cooperative theory if you know formal Game Theory that's what they play

35:04

it started at the Rand Corporation that's what they still play in 2019

35:09

there's a paper by Rand how do we extend Russia do you know they wrote a paper

35:15

which Biden followed how do we annoy Russia that's literally the strategy how

35:23

do we annoy Russia we're trying to provoke it trying to make could break

35:28

apart maybe have regime change maybe have unrest maybe have economic

35:33

crisis that's what you call your ally are you

35:41

[Music] kidding so I had a long and

35:46

frustrating phone call with suvan I was standing out in the freezing

35:52

cold I happen to be H trying to have a ski day

35:58

and there I was Jake don't have the war oh there'll be no war

36:04

Jeff we know a lot of what happened the next month which is that they refus to

NATO's Open Door Policy

36:12

negotiate the stupidest idea of NATO is the so-called open door

36:18

policy are you kidding NATO reserves the right to go where it wants without any

36:26

neighbor having any say whatsoever well I tell the Mexicans and

36:32

the Canadians don't try it you know Trump may want to take over Canada

36:40

so Canada could say to China why don't you build a military base uh in uh in in

36:47

Ontario I wouldn't advise it and the United States would not say

36:53

well it's an open door that's their business I mean they can do what they want that's not our

36:59

business but grown-ups in Europe repeat this in Europe in your commission your

37:08

high representative this is nonsense stuff this is not even baby

37:17

geopolitics this is just not thinking at all so the war started what was Putin's

Putin's Intentions in Ukraine

37:25

intention in the war I can tell you what his intention was it was to force

37:33

zalinski to negotiate neutrality and that happened within 7

37:41

Days of the start of the invasion you should understand this not

37:48

the propaganda that's written about this oh that they failed and he was going to take over

37:54

Ukraine come on ladies and gentlemen understand something

37:59

basic the idea was to keep NATO and what is NATO it's the United

38:06

States off of Russia's border no more no

38:12

less I should add one very important Point why are they so interested first

38:22

because if China or Russia decided to have a military base on the Rio Grand or

38:29

in uh the Canadian border Not only would the United States freak out we'd have

38:34

War within about 10 minutes but because the United States

38:40

unilaterally abandoned the anti-ballistic missile treaty in 2002

38:46

and ended the nuclear arms control framework by doing so and this is extremely important to

38:55

understand the nuclear Arms Control framework is based on trying to block a

39:01

first strike the ABM Treaty was a critical component of that the US unilaterally

39:08

walked out of the ABM Treaty in 2002 it blew a Russian gasket so everything I've

39:15

been describing is in the context of the destruction of the nuclear framework as well and starting in 2010 the US put in

39:24

AIS missile systems in Poland and then in

39:29

Romania and Russia doesn't like that and one of the issues on the table in

39:35

December and January December 2021 January 2022 was does the United States

39:42

claim the right to put missile systems in Ukraine and blinkin told lavro in

39:49

January 2022 the United States reserves the right to put middle missile systems

39:55

wherever it wants that's

40:00

your putative Ally and now let's put intermediate

40:06

missile systems back in Germany the United States walked out of the INF treaty unilaterally in 2019 there is no

40:14

nuclear arms framework right now

40:21

none when zalinsky said in seven days let's

2022 Peace Talks

40:26

negotiate I know the details of this

40:31

exquisitly because I've talked to all the parities in

40:36

detail within a couple of weeks there was a document

40:42

exchanged that President Putin had approved that lavro had presented that

40:47

was being managed by the Turkish mediators I flew to anchora to listen in

40:54

detail to what the mediators were doing Ukraine walked away unilaterally

41:02

from a near agreement why because the United States

41:09

told them to because the UK added icing to the cake by having

41:18

Bojo go in early April to Ukraine and

41:24

explain and he has recently and if your security is in the hands of Boris

41:29

Johnson God help us all Keith starmer turns out to be even

41:35

worse it's unimaginable but it is

41:42

true Boris Johnson has explained and you can look it

41:47

up on the website that what's at stake here is Western

41:54

hegemony not Ukraine Western he

42:00

Michael and I met at the Vatican with a group in the spring of

42:05

20122 where we wrote a document explaining nothing good can come out of

42:11

this war for Ukraine negotiate now because anything that takes time will mean massive amounts of deaths risk of

42:20

nuclear escalation and likely loss of the

42:26

war I wouldn't change one word from what we wrote then nothing was wrong in that

42:32

document and since that document since the US talked the negotiators away from

42:38

the table about a million ukrainians have died or been severely

42:45

wounded and the American Senators who are as nasty and cynical and corrupt as

42:54

imaginable say this is wonderful expenditure of our money because no Americans are

43:00

dying it's the pure proxy war one of our Senators near by me uh

43:07

Blumenthal says this out loud Mitt Romney says this out loud it's

43:14

best money America can spend no Americans are dying it's

43:21

unreal now just to bring us up to yesterday

43:28

this failed this project failed the idea of the project was that Russia would

43:34

fold its hand the idea all along was Russia can't

43:40

resist as big new binski explained in 1997 the Americans thought we have the

43:47

upper hand we're going to win because we're going to Bluff them they're not really

43:54

going to fight they're not really going to mobilize the nuclear option of cutting them out

44:00

of Swift that's going to do them in the

44:06

economic sanctions that's going to do them in the himars that's going to do them in

44:13

the attacks the f-16s honestly I've listened to this for

44:21

70 years I've listened to it as semi understanding I'd say for

44:27

about 56 years they speak nonsense every day my

44:33

country my government this is so familiar to me completely familiar I begged the

44:42

ukrainians and I had a track record with the ukrainians I advised the ukrainians I'm not anti-ukrainian I'm pro-ukrainian

44:49

completely I said save your lives save your sovereignty save your territory be

44:55

neutral don't listen to the Americans I repeated to them the famous

45:01

adage of Henry Kissinger that to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous

45:07

but to be a friend is fatal okay so let me repeat that for

45:13

Europe to be an enemy of the United States is dangerous but to be a friend

45:18

is fatal so let me now finalize a few words

Donald Trump

45:26

about Trump

45:31

Trump does not want the losing hand this is

45:38

why it is more likely than not this war will end because Trump and President Putin

45:47

will agree to end the war if Europe does all its great

45:54

warmongering it doesn't matter the war is ending so get it out of your

46:02

system please tell your colleagues it's

46:07

over and it's over because Trump doesn't want to carry a

46:14

loser that's it it's not some great morality he doesn't want to carry a

46:21

loser this is a loser the one that will be saved by the

46:26

negoti iations taking place right now is Ukraine second is Europe your stock

46:33

markets rising in recent Days by the horrible news of negotiations I know

46:40

this has been met with the sheer Horror in these Chambers but this is the best

46:47

news that you could get now I encouraged they don't listen to me but I

46:55

tried to reach out to some of the European leaders most don't want to hear

47:00

anything from me at all but I said don't go to

47:08

Kiev go to Moscow discuss with your

47:13

counterparts are you kidding you're Europe you're 450 million people your $

47:19

20 trillion economy you should be the main economic

47:25

Trading partner of Russia it's natural

47:31

links by the way if anyone would like to discuss how the US blew up nordstream

47:37

I'd be happy to talk about

47:43

that so the Trump Administration is

47:49

imperialist at heart it is a great

47:55

powers dominate the world it is we will do what we want when

48:01

we can we will be better than a

48:08

ccent Biden and we'll cut our losses where we have

48:14

to there are several war zones in the world the Middle East being another we

48:20

don't know what will happen with that again if Europe had a proper policy you

48:26

could stop that war I'll explain how but war with China is also a

48:36

possibility so I'm not saying that we're at the new age of

48:42

Peace but we are in a uh very uh different kind of politics

48:51

right now and Europe should have a foreign policy and not just a foreign policy of

48:59

russophobia a foreign policy that is a realistic foreign policy that

49:04

understands Russia's situation that understands Europe's situation that understands what America is and what it

49:10

stands for that tries to avoid Europe being invaded by the

49:17

United States because it's not impossible that

49:23

America will just land troops in Danish territory

49:28

I'm not joking and I don't think they're joking and Europe needs a foreign policy

49:35

a real one not a yes we'll bargain with

49:41

Mr Trump and meet him halfway you know what that will be like

49:47

give me a call afterwards please don't have American

49:55

officials as head of Europe have European officials

50:02

please have a European foreign policy you're going to be living with

50:07

Russia for a long time so please negotiate with

50:12

Russia there are real security issues on the table but the bombast and the

50:21

russophobia is not serving your security at all it's not serving you security at

50:27

all and contributed to a million casualties in Ukraine from this idiotic

50:34

American Adventure that you signed on to and then became the lead cheerleaders

50:40

of solves

Middle East

50:45

nothing on the Middle East by the way the

50:51

US completely handed over foreign policy to Netanyahu 30 years ago ago the Israel

50:58

Lobby dominates American politics just have no doubt about it I could explain

51:06

for hours how it works it's very dangerous I'm hoping that Trump will not

51:14

destroy his administration and worse the Palestinian people because of Netanyahu who I regard

51:22

as a war criminal uh properly indicted by the

51:29

IC and that needs to be told no more that there will be a state of Palestine

51:36

on the borders of the 4th of June 1967 according to international law as

51:42

the only way for peace it's the only way for Europe to have peace on your borders

51:50

with the Middle East is the two-state solution there is only one obst Le to it

51:57

by the way and that is the veto of the United States and the UN Security Council so if you want to have some

52:04

influence tell the United States Drop The veto you are together with 180 countries

52:13

in the world the only ones that oppose a Palestinian state

52:19

are the United States Israel Micronesia naaru

52:27

poao Papa guini Mr

52:32

Malay and Paraguay so this is a place where Europe

52:39

could have a big influence Europe has gone silent about the jcpoa and

52:46

Iran netanyahu's greatest dream in life is a war between the United States and

52:52

Iran he's not given up and it's not impossible that that would come

52:58

also and that's because the US in this regard does not have an independent

53:04

foreign policy it is run by Israel it's tragic it's amazing by the

53:12

way and it could end Trump may say that

53:18

he wants foreign policy back maybe I'm hoping that it's the case finally let me

China

53:24

just say with respect to China China CH is not an enemy China is just a success

53:31

story that's why it is viewed by the United States as an enemy because China

53:38

is a bigger economy than the United States that's

53:46

[Applause]

53:55

all there

54:01

[Applause]

54:07

thanks very well now questions please don't make any

54:12

statements just make questions because we are too many and we we don't have

54:18

that all that much time so um where do I start I start with on the left side I

54:25

have a preference to left as you know you come all yeah go ahead uh thank you Jeffrey

54:32

Sak uh from the Czech Republic we are glad we have you here uh we have a problem uh we were cursed by a witch who

Europe-Russia Relations

54:39

uh told the EU and the EU is marked uh so uh it won't be improved until

54:46

2029 but what we the central Europeans should do in the meantime especially if

54:52

the Germans doesn't don't happen to vote for SAR enough uh are we supposed to create some

55:00

kind of neutrality for the Central Europe or what would you suggest us to do

55:08

yeah so uh first of all uh all my

55:13

grandchildren are Czech I want you to know uh and Sonia is a Czech born and

55:20

Czech citizen um so we're very proud uh I'm I'm the trailing spouse in this but

55:26

I'm a check wannabe

55:34

um Europe needs to have a foreign policy that is a European foreign policy and it

55:41

needs to be a realist foreign policy realist is not hate realist is actually

55:48

trying to understand both sides and to negotiate there are two kinds of

55:54

realists a defensive realist an offensive realist uh my dear friend John

56:00

mimer who is the offensive realist I I we're very close friends and I love him

56:06

but I believe more than he does you talk to the other side and you find a way to

56:12

make uh an understanding and so basically

56:21

uh Russia is not going to invade Europe this is the fundamental point it may get

56:29

up to the deeper River it's not going to invade Europe

56:35

but there are real issues the the main issue for Russia was

56:42

the United States because Russia as a major power and a the largest nuclear

56:50

power in the world was profoundly concerned about us unipolarity

56:56

from the beginning now that this is seemingly possibly ending Europe has to open

57:04

negotiations directly with Russia as well because the United States will quickly lose interest and you're going

57:11

to be living with Russia for the next thousands of years okay so what do you want you want

57:20

to make sure that the Baltic states are secure the best thing for the Baltic

57:25

states is to stop their russophobia this is the most important

57:33

thing Estonia has about 25% Russian citizens Russian speaking citizens

57:39

ethnic Russians Lota the

57:45

same don't provoke the neighbor that's

57:52

all this is not hard it really isn't Hur and again I

57:59

want to explain my point of view I have helped these countries the

58:05

ones I'm talking about trying to advise I'm not their enemy I'm not Putin's puppet I'm not Putin's

58:12

apologist I worked in Estonia they gave me I don't it's not I think it's the

58:19

second highest civilian honor that a president of Estonia can bestow on a

58:24

non-national because I designed their currency system for them in

58:31

1992 so I'm giving them advice do not stand there Estonia and say we want to

58:37

break up Russia are you kidding don't this is not how to survive in this

58:46

world you survive with mutual respect

58:52

actually you survive in negotiation you survive in discussion you don't

58:59

Outlaw the Russian language not a good idea when 25% of

59:05

your population is has a first language of Russian it's not right even if there

59:12

weren't a giant On the Border it wouldn't be the right thing to do you'd

59:18

have it as an official language you'd have a language of a in lower school you

59:24

wouldn't antagonize the Russian Orthodox church so basically we need to behave

59:31

like grown-ups and when I constantly

59:38

say that they're acting like children Sonia always says to me that's unfair to

59:46

children because this is worse than children we have a six-year-old

59:52

granddaughter and a three-year-old grandson and they actually make up with their

1:00:00

friends and we don't tell them go just just ridicule them tomorrow and every

1:00:08

day we say go give them a hug and go

1:00:13

play and they do this is not

1:00:19

hard by the way well anyway I won't be labor the point Thank you so elect the

1:00:25

new I should say all I should say is change change

1:00:31

policy I don't want to have a political leaning here yeah maybe a lady and does that work yeah hi my name

1:00:39

is Cara I'm a reporter with the Brussels times um thank you for the fascinating talk Jeffrey um I just wanted to ask you

NATO 5% Defence Spending

1:00:45

about Trump's statements about wanting uh NATO members to increase their spending by 5% and we're now seeing lots

1:00:51

of countries scrambling to prove that they're going to do that including Belgium and given that Belgium is also

1:00:56

the NATO headquarters um I wanted to ask you what would be the appropriate response to those statements by NATO

1:01:02

members thanks great thank you uh we don't see exactly eye eye on this

1:01:08

question so let me let me give you my own uh my own view

1:01:14

um my first recommendation with all respect to Brussels is move the NATO

1:01:20

headquarters somewhere else uh I I mean it's seriously because one

1:01:28

of the worst parts of European policy right now is a complete

1:01:34

confusion of Europe and NATO these are completely different but

1:01:39

they became exactly the same Europe is much better than

1:01:46

nato in my opinion NATO isn't even needed anymore I would have ended it in

1:01:54

1991 but because the US viewed it as a

1:01:59

instrument of aemy not as a defense against Russia it

1:02:04

continued afterwards but the confusion of NATO and Europe is

1:02:12

deadly because expanding Europe meant expanding NATO period and these should have been

1:02:20

completely different things so this is uh the first point

1:02:27

my own view again with all respect to Michael we only had a brief conversation

1:02:32

about it is that Europe should have Europe basically should have its own

1:02:38

foreign policy and its own uh its own military security its own

1:02:45

strategic autonomy so-called and it should I'm in favor of that I would disband NATO and maybe Trump is going to

1:02:53

do it anyway maybe Trump's going to invade Greenland who knows then you're really

1:02:59

going to find out what NATO means

1:03:04

so I do think that Europe should invest in its

1:03:09

security 5% is outlandish ridiculous

1:03:16

absurd completely absurd no one needs to spend anything like that

1:03:23

amount 2 to 3% of GDP probably under the current

1:03:30

circumstances what I would do by the way is by European

1:03:38

production because actually strangely

1:03:43

weirdly unfortunately in this world and it's a true truism but it's unfortunate

1:03:51

so I'm not championing it a lot of technological Innovation spins off from

1:03:59

the military sector because governments invest in the military

1:04:04

sector so Trump is a arms salesman you

1:04:10

understand that he's selling American

1:04:16

Arms he is selling American Technology Vance told you a few days ago

1:04:23

don't even think about having your own AI

1:04:28

technology so please understand that this increase of

1:04:34

spending is for the United States not for

1:04:40

you and in this sense I'm completely against that approach but I would not be against an

1:04:47

approach of Europe spending two to three% of GDP for a unified European

1:04:54

security structure and invested in Europe and European

1:05:00

technology and not having the United States dictate the use of European

1:05:07

technology it's so interesting it's the Netherlands that produces the only

1:05:12

Machines of advanced semiconductors extreme ultraviolet

1:05:19

lithography it's asml but America determines every policy of asml

1:05:26

the Netherlands doesn't even have a footnote I wouldn't do that if I were

1:05:32

you hand over all security to the United States I wouldn't do it I would have

1:05:39

your own security framework so you can have your own foreign policy framework

1:05:45

as well Europe stands for lots of things that the United States does not stand

1:05:51

for Europe stands for climate action by the way rightly so because our

1:05:57

president is completely Bonkers on this and Europe stands for

1:06:04

indecency for social democracy as an ethos I'm not talking about a party I'm

1:06:10

talking about an ethos of how equality of Life

1:06:16

occurs Europe stands for multilateralism Europe stands for the UN

1:06:21

Charter the US stands for none of those things you know that our secretary of state Marco Rubio

1:06:30

cancelled his trip to South Africa because on the agenda was equality and

1:06:38

sustainability and he said I'm not getting into that that is an honest reflection of

1:06:46

deep anglosaxon

1:06:51

libertarianism egalitarianism is not a word of the American

1:06:57

lexicon sustainable development not at all you probably know by the way that of

1:07:04

the 193 UN member states

1:07:10

191 have had sdg plans presented as voluntary National reviews

1:07:17

191 two have not Haiti and the United

1:07:22

States of America the the Biden Administration wasn't even allowed to say sustainable

1:07:29

development goals the treasury had a policy not to say sustainable

1:07:34

development goals okay I mention all of this because you need your own foreign

1:07:41

policy I issue a report two reports each year one the world happiness report and

1:07:48

18 of the top 20 countries if I I remember correctly are European this is

1:07:53

the highest quality of life in the world so you need your own policy to

1:07:59

protect that quality of life the United States ranks way

1:08:05

down and the other report where's my colleague Gom is somewhere in the room

1:08:10

here there he is Gom La foron is the lead author of our annual sustainable

1:08:16

development report and almost all of the top 20 countries are European countries

1:08:23

because you believe in this stuff and that's why you're the happiest except in

1:08:32

geopolitics but quality of life so you need your

1:08:37

own foreign policy but you won't have it unless you have your own security you

1:08:42

just won't and so and by the way 27 countries cannot each have their own

1:08:49

foreign policy this is a problem you need a European foreign policy and and a

1:08:55

European security structure and by the way although Michael assures me it's dead I was the greatest fan of

1:09:04

osce and believe that occe is the proper framework for European security it could

1:09:11

really work okay and um afterwards first thank

1:09:19

you thank you very much you at the lunch no you can yeah yeah okay uh well uh thank you Professor I'm from Slovakia

1:09:26

and my prime minister Robert fito was almost shot dead because the opinions you had the similar with him uh yes we

1:09:34

are as a Slovakia Slovak government of the few countries in the European Union we are talking to Russians uh two months

1:09:41

ago I was talking with Mr medv uh in two weeks I will be talking uh in Duma with

1:09:47

Mr slutzki who is the chairman of the Russian uh foreign affairs Committee in uh Moscow maybe my question is what

2025 Peace Negotiations

1:09:54

would you be your message to Russians in this moment because as I heard they are on

1:10:00

the Victorious wave they have no reason to not to conquer the dbas because that's their War aim and what can Trump

1:10:07

uh can offer to them uh to stop the war immediately what would be what would be

1:10:13

the message for Russians from your side thank you very

1:10:20

much lots of uh important things are uh now on offer and on the table and I

1:10:27

believe that the war will end quickly because of this and this this will be at

1:10:34

least one blessing in a very uh very difficult time exactly what the

1:10:40

settlement will be I think uh is now only a question of the territorial

1:10:47

issues uh and that is whether it is the complete four OAS including all of Heron

1:10:55

and upper Asia or whether it is on the contact line and how all of this will be

1:11:01

negotiated I'm not in the room of the negotiations so I can't really say more

1:11:07

but the basis will be there will be territorial concessions there will be

1:11:14

neutrality there will be security guarantees for Ukraine for all parties

1:11:20

uh there will be at least with the US an end of the economic sanction

1:11:26

but what counts of course is Europe and Russia I think that there are and maybe

1:11:33

there will be a restoration of nuclear arms uh negotiations which would be

1:11:40

extraordinarily positive I think that there are tremendously important issues for

1:11:48

Europe to negotiate directly with Russia

1:11:53

and so I would urge uh president Costa and the leadership of Europe to open

1:12:01

direct discussions with President Putin because European security is on the

1:12:08

table I know the Russian leaders many of them quite well uh they are good

1:12:17

negotiators and uh you should negotiate with them uh and you should negotiate

1:12:23

well with them uh I would ask them some questions uh I

1:12:30

would ask them what are the security guarantees that can work so that this

1:12:36

war ends permanently what are the security guarantees for the Baltic states what

1:12:43

should be done part of the process of negotiation is actually to ask the other

1:12:48

side about your concerns not just to know what they know as you think is to

1:12:55

true but actually to ask we have a real problem we have a real worry what are

1:13:01

the guarantees well I want to know the answers also uh by the way I know Mr

1:13:07

lavro Minister lavro for 30 years I I regard him as a brilliant foreign minister uh talk with him negotiate with

1:13:16

him get ideas put ideas on the table put counter ideas on the table I don't think

1:13:22

all of this can be settled by pure reason because uh of oneself you settle

1:13:30

Wars by negotiating and understanding what are the real issues and you don't

1:13:36

call the other side a liar when they express their issues you work out what

1:13:42

the implications of that are for the mutual benefit of Peace So the most

1:13:50

important thing is stop the yelling stop the war mongering and discuss with the

1:13:58

Russian counterparts and don't beg to be at the table with the United States you

1:14:04

don't need to be in the room with the United States you're Europe you should be in the room with Europe and

1:14:11

Russia if the United States wants to join that's fine but to beg no and by the

1:14:19

way Europe does not need to have Ukraine in the room when Europe talks with

1:14:27

Russia you have a lot of issues direct issues don't hand over your foreign

1:14:34

policy to anybody not to the United States not to Ukraine not to

1:14:40

Israel keep a European foreign policy this is the basic idea

1:14:49

[Applause]

1:14:55

Hans noof from the sovereignist political group in this Parliament um alternative for Germany as political

1:15:02

party first of all let me thank you Mr Sax for being here and sharing your ideas with us and be assured that many

1:15:10

of your ideas and of your colleague John mimer have well been received by

1:15:16

political groups here and have been integrated into our agenda I widely

Beginning of NATO Expansion

1:15:21

share your views um yet there's one question regarding the historical

1:15:27

account that you gave uh where I would like to go in some detail and This concerns the beginning of NATO expansion

1:15:36

um you um uh uh reported from uh um the

1:15:42

website um what gorbachov heard that there are many um quotations from Ganser

1:15:48

for example um that NATO will not move one inch eastwards now the two for

1:15:55

treaty has been signed in September 1990 right in Moscow so at that point in time

1:16:02

the waro PCT still existed and countries like Poland Hungary and czechia were not part of the

1:16:10

negotiations for the two and four treaty so The wara Pact actually dissolved in

1:16:16

July 1991 and the Soviet Union dissolved in December

1:16:21

1991 so nobody who was was present in the negotiations could speak for Poland

1:16:28

could speak for Hungary could speak for Slovakia that they would not try to become member of NATO once the overall

1:16:37

situation has changed so the counterargument um which we have to

1:16:42

counter um is that it was on the will of these countries of Poland of Hungary of

1:16:50

Slovakia that they wanted to join NATO because of the very hist

1:16:55

they had with the Soviet Union and of course Russia was still perceived in a

1:17:00

way um as a follower of the Soviet Union so how do you counter that

1:17:12

argument I have no doubt of why Hungary Poland Czech Republic Slovakia wanted to

1:17:21

join NATO the question is what is the US

1:17:27

doing to make peace because NATO is not a choice of Hungary Poland Czech

1:17:34

Republic or Slovakia NATO is a us-led military Alliance and the question is

1:17:42

how are we going to establish peace in a reliable way if I were uh making those decisions

1:17:52

back then I would have ended NATO nato altoe in

1:17:58

1991 when those countries requested NATO I would have explain to them what our

1:18:05

defense secretary William Perry said what our lead Statesman George Kenan

1:18:11

said what our final ambassador to the Soviet Union Jack Matlock said uh they

1:18:18

said well we understand your feelings but it's not a good idea because it could provoke a new cold war with Russia

1:18:26

so that's how I would have answered it when those countries joined uh in the

1:18:32

first wave I don't think it was that consequential in fact except that it was

1:18:40

part of a bigger project and the project was spelled out already in 1994 there's

1:18:46

a very good book by Jonathan Haslam Harvard University press called hubris

1:18:54

which uh gives a detailed historical documentation of step by step what

1:19:00

happened uh and uh it's it's really worth reading um so this is a now but

1:19:08

the point I would really make is that Ukraine and Georgia were too

1:19:16

far this is right up against Russia this is in the context of the

1:19:23

complete dest ization of the nuclear framework this is in the context of the

1:19:29

US putting in missile systems on Russia's borders if you listen to

1:19:34

President Putin over the years probably the main thing if you

1:19:39

listen carefully that he's concerned about is missiles 7 minutes from Moscow

1:19:45

is a decapitation strike and this is very real the US Not

1:19:51

only would freak out but did freak out when this happened in the Western

1:19:57

Hemisphere so it's the Cuban Missile Crisis in reverse and fortunately Nikita kushev

1:20:06

did not stand up and say open door policy of the Warsaw Pact we can go

1:20:13

wherever we want Cuba's asked us it's none of America's business what kushev said Is War my God

1:20:21

we don't want war we end this crisis we both pull back that's what kushev and

1:20:27

Kennedy decided in the end so this is the real consequential Russia even

1:20:34

swallowed with a lot of pain the Baltic states Romania Bulgaria Slovakia and

1:20:40

Slovenia it is Ukraine and Georgia and it's because of geography it's because

1:20:48

of Lord Palmerston it's because of the first Crimean War it's because of the

1:20:53

missile systems that this is the essence of why there was this

1:21:03

[Applause] war um yeah is there anybody else

1:21:10

because then we maybe close what you want to be the last one oh which one

1:21:19

oh can can we still continue yeah no you you come for the lunch don't take

1:21:25

you thank thank you very much Professor sax for coming um here um you've

How to achieve a real European Foreign Policy

1:21:31

mentioned that the European Union needs to formulate its own foreign policy um in the past the German Franco Alliance

1:21:38

was a big driver for for those policies now with the Ukraine war arguably that

1:21:44

received the crack um do you think that in the future when the European Union is going to formulate this new foreign

1:21:49

policy that they are going to be again in the front seat or uh should it be other other countries or other blocks um

1:21:56

trying to make that change thank you very much oh it's hard it it's hard because

1:22:08

uh of course you don't yet have a a constitution for Europe which really

1:22:16

underpins a European foreign policy and it can't be by

1:22:22

unanimity there has to be a structure in which Europe can speak as Europe even

1:22:28

with some uh dissent but with the European policy I don't want to

1:22:35

oversimplify how to get there exactly but even with the structures you have

1:22:40

you could do a lot better with negotiating directly the first rule is

1:22:47

your diplomats should be diplomats not secretaries of War

1:22:58

honestly that would go halfway at least to where you want to

1:23:04

go a diplomat is a very special kind of

1:23:09

talent a diplomat is trained to sit together with the other side and to

1:23:16

listen to shake hands to smile and to be pleasant it's very hard it's a skill

1:23:25

it's training it's a profession it's not a

1:23:31

game you need that kind of

1:23:37

diplomacy I'm sorry we are not hearing anything like

1:23:45

that I'll just make a couple complaints first Europe is not NATO as I

1:23:53

said I thought stoltenberg was the worst but I was

1:24:00

wrong it just keeps getting worse could someone in NATO stop

1:24:08

talking for God's sake about more

1:24:14

war and could NATO stop speaking for Europe and Europe stop thinking it's

1:24:21

NATO this is the first absolute Point second I'm sorry but your high

1:24:28

representative vice presidents need to become

1:24:35

diplomats diplomacy means going to Moscow inviting your Russian counterpart

1:24:45

here discussing this doesn't happen till

1:24:52

now so this is really my point now

1:24:59

I believe that Europe should become more integrated and more unified in the years

1:25:06

ahead I'm a strong believer in subsidiarity so we were discussing I

1:25:13

don't think housing policy is really Europe's main issue I think this can be

1:25:19

handled at the local level or at the national level I don't see it as a European issue but I don't see foreign

1:25:26

policy as being a 27 country issue I see it being as a European issue and I see

1:25:33

security being at a European level so I think things need to be readjusted but

1:25:39

I'd like to see more Europe for truly European issues and maybe less Europe

1:25:45

for things that are properly subsidiary to Europe at the national and the local

1:25:50

level and I hope that uh such an Evolution can take place you know when

1:25:56

the world talks about great Powers right now they talk about us Russia China I

1:26:04

include India and I really want to include Europe and I really want to

1:26:10

include Africa as an African Union and I want that to happen but

1:26:17

you'll notice on the list Europe doesn't show up right now and this is because there is no European foreign policy

1:26:28

okay you maybe after you one more then we when I close is there is there

1:26:33

anybody wanted I would prefer a woman actually if I'm there you you you wanted

1:26:40

no first first this gentlemen and then you close okay sorry for this one it's

1:26:46

a thank you very much and thank you very much Professor for this very courageous speech very clear speech also that you

1:26:52

made I'm an MEP from Luxemburg uh my question is the following what are the long-term

1:26:58

consequences of this lost War we lost the war now we have an uncertain future for NATO we have also clearly and you

1:27:06

refer to it the marginalization of Europe we have um a strengthening of the

1:27:11

bricks countries which can be rivals in many uh respects so will there be a

1:27:17

future for a collective West over the next 20 or 30 years thank you very much

1:27:26

I I don't believe there is a collective West uh I believe that there is a United

1:27:32

States and Europe that are uh in some

1:27:37

areas uh in parallel interests and in many areas not in parallel

1:27:43

interest I I want Europe to lead uh sustainable

The Future of the West

1:27:51

development climate transformation Global

1:27:56

decency I believe if the world world looked more like Europe it' be a happier

1:28:03

more peaceful safer world and long longevity and better food by the way uh

1:28:11

but uh just saying um in any event Europe has a vocation that is

1:28:17

rather different from the American tradition and frankly from the angloa

1:28:24

tradition because it's been 200 years of anglo-saxon hegemony or aspirational

1:28:31

hegemony the British still believe they run the world it's amazing what

1:28:36

nostalgia means uh they don't even stop

1:28:42

it's almost like a Monty Python skit actually uh but in any event

1:28:49

um where was I I'm thinking of Monty Python when uh

1:28:54

when the Knight gets all his limbs cut off and says everything's fine I'm Victorious that's Britain unfortunately

1:29:01

uh and so it's uh it's it's really terrible so no I don't believe in the

1:29:07

collective West I don't believe in the global South uh I don't believe in uh I

1:29:13

all these geographies don't even make sense because I'm actually you know I look at Maps a lot and the global South

1:29:20

is mostly in the North and the West is not even West uh and so I don't even

1:29:26

understand what this is about I do believe that um we could be in a true

1:29:36

age of abundance if we got our heads on straight we're in the biggest

1:29:43

technological advance in human history it's truly amazing what can be done

1:29:50

right now you know I Marvel at the fact that that somebody who knows no

1:29:56

chemistry won the Nobel Peace Prize for chemistry because he's very good at Deep

1:30:03

neural networks a genius Demis hbus

1:30:09

um they figured out protein folding uh that uh generations of biochemists spent

1:30:16

their whole lives on and now U Deep Mind figured out how to do it U you know uh

1:30:24

by the thousands of proteins we have friends that spent their entire life on one protein brilliant friends and uh now

1:30:32

what we can do so if actually and same with renewable energy as everybody knows

1:30:38

the prices come down by more than two orders of magnitude the costs we could

1:30:45

transform the planet we could protect the climate system we could protect biodiversity we could ensure every child

1:30:52

gets a good education we could do so many wonderful things right now and so

1:30:58

what do we need to do that in my view we need peace most importantly and my basic

1:31:06

point is there are no deep reasons for conflict

1:31:11

anywhere as every conflict I study is just a mistake it's not we are not

1:31:19

struggling for laon's real that idea that came from Mal

1:31:24

and it became a Nazi idea was always a wrong idea it was a mistake a

1:31:31

fundamental intellectual mistake an intellectual Mistake by the

1:31:37

way cuz leading scientists adopted the idea that we had race Wars we had

1:31:42

National Wars we had Wars of survival because we don't have enough on the planet as an economist I can tell you we

1:31:50

have plenty on the planet for everybody's development plenty we're not in a conflict with

1:31:57

China we're not in a conflict with Russia if we calm

1:32:04

down if you ask about the long term the long term is very good thank you the

1:32:11

long term if we don't blow ourselves up is very good and so this is what we

1:32:18

should aim for a positive shared Vision under International

1:32:24

law because of our technology things operate at a regional scale now it used

1:32:30

to be it was Villages then it was a it was small areas then it was unification

1:32:36

of countries now it's regional that's not just because regions are wonderful

1:32:42

it's because the underlying technological reality say Europe should be an integrated area by transport by

1:32:49

fast rail by digital by and so there's Europe the politics follows the

1:32:55

technological realities to a very important extent we're in a world of regions

1:33:00

now so Europe should be Europe with subsidiarity don't lose all of the

1:33:08

wonderful wonderful national and local elements but Europe should be Europe so

1:33:16

the good side is let's I want Europe to have diplomacy for example with Assan I

1:33:22

spend a lot of time with the aan countries if the the EU green deal wonderful

1:33:31

idea I said many years ago okay to the Assan leaders make an Assan green deal

1:33:39

and then talk with the Europeans so that you have this uh wonderful relationship

1:33:45

trade investment technology so last year they announced an aan green deal what

1:33:51

did Europe do about it nothing it said sorry we're in the Ukraine war thank you no interest so this is my

1:34:01

point the prospects are very positive if we construct the

1:34:08

piece [Applause] yeah because we have to go I get all the

1:34:16

time messages that I should here leave the room can you something very short yeah

1:34:23

um do you think that a way out of the conflict is some kind of style of

Finlandization

1:34:28

finlandization um and then like is that what you would have sorry yeah is that what you would have lik to see like

1:34:35

Sweden and finland's foreign policy as an example like is that instead of them becoming members of NATO is that the way

1:34:42

that you would have likeed to see these countries handled out foreign policy um and do you think that these countries

1:34:49

that border Russia should just kind of succumb to their fate that okay we can't provoke Russia like this is the way we

1:34:54

have to live yeah very good excellent question and let me let me just report

1:35:03

one uh part about finlandization finlandization landed Finland number one in the world

1:35:11

happiness report year after year Rich successful happy and secure that's

1:35:21

prenado so finlandization was a wonderful thing number one in the world

1:35:28

when Sweden and Finland and Austria were neutral Bravo smart when Ukraine was

1:35:36

neutral smart if you have two superpowers keep them apart a little bit

1:35:42

you don't have to be right with your nose up against each other especially if one of them the US is pushing its nose

1:35:49

into the other one and so finlandization

1:35:55

to my mind has a very positive connotation so does Austrian

1:36:00

isation Austria 1955 signed its uh

1:36:06

neutrality the Soviet Army left and Austria is a wonderful place by the way

1:36:12

absolutely wonderful and so this is uh basic how to avoid conflict if the

1:36:19

United States had any sense at all it would have left these countries as a neutral space in between the US Military

1:36:29

and Russia but that's where the US lost it thank you very much let

1:36:35

[Applause] me I I just want to end with an appeal I

1:36:42

think we both agree that we will have a the war will end within a month or two

1:36:49

and that means the fighting will end it doesn't mean that we will have peace in Europe the peace in Europe that has to

1:36:54

be done by us by Europeans not by a president from the United States we have to create this peace and that is Europe

1:37:01

which includes of course Belarus Russia and all these other countries so we have to do something and we are here at

1:37:08

Parliament as a parliamentarians we represent people we are the only legitimate democratically legitimate

1:37:14

institution in the European Union maybe we should have become all a little bit more proactive in trying to move this

1:37:22

peace process forward cross party lines I think I don't know how many parties here really are but that we can talk to

1:37:27

each other without saying ah you're from this party you're from this party I think we really have to concentrate if

1:37:33

here we could not take more initiative from the parliament Visa V the commission and saying we are presenting

1:37:40

the people not you we are presenting the people and these people in Europe want peace and that's what we should go so

1:37:46

maybe this is the beginning of one we will make every month I will organize with my colleagues an or the same thing

1:37:53

here about different topics which were all around it and we hope that this one we get a discussion that is different

1:37:59

what we have in the plenum where we basically don't have a discussion but that we have a discussion and also

1:38:04

across the party and invite also people from other political parties we don't bite anybody let's discuss it in the end

1:38:11

we want all want this the same peace for the next generation and I have plenty of children grandchildren you too and

1:38:17

that's what we need okay thank you very much professor [Applause] [Music]

1:38:23

[Applause] [Music]

1:38:33

you

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